Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida Mourn the Loss of a Dear Friend: Former CEO Sandi Stewart

It is with heavy hearts that we share the passing of a remarkable woman who touched the lives of countless individuals within the Girl Scouts community. On July 19, 2023, Sandi Stewart, the previous CEO of Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida, Inc., peacefully left this world, leaving behind a legacy that will forever inspire and uplift.

Sandi’s journey with Girl Scouts began over three decades ago as a dedicated volunteer, driven by her passion for empowering young girls to become confident leaders. Over the years, she served as the finance director and ultimately became the CEO in 1998. For a remarkable 23 years, she devoted herself to shaping the future of Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida, Inc.

During her tenure as CEO, Sandi accomplished incredible milestones, leaving an indelible mark on the organization. One of her most significant achievements was successfully leading a groundbreaking $7.8 million capital campaign. Through her visionary leadership, two LEED-certified facilities were established on the Searcy G. Koen Regional Girl Scout Campus in Sarasota. These spaces now stand as symbols of Sandi’s commitment to both the environment and the growth of the Girl Scouts community.

Under Sandi’s guidance, Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida, Inc. flourished. Despite facing challenging economic times, she ensured the organization’s financial stability, allowing the Girl Scouts’ vital work to continue unabated.

Girl Scouts tour the Sarasota Campus with former CEO Sandi Stewart.

Sandi Stewart’s became a beacon of hope and inspiration, empowering young girls to dream big and achieve their full potential as young women of courage, confidence, and character who make the world a better place. Her compassionate spirit and tireless dedication touched the lives of all who had the privilege of knowing her.

As we bid farewell to a visionary leader and a true friend, let us remember Sandi Stewart’s remarkable legacy. We celebrate the life of a woman who selflessly dedicated herself to the betterment of others, leaving behind a world that is brighter because of her contributions.

To honor Sandi’s dedication to Girl Scouting and particularly to Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida, we are dedicating our work at the 56th National Convention, which is taking place from July 18-22 at Walt Disney World Resort, in her memory.

Please join us in honoring Sandi’s memory by cherishing the values she held dear and continuing her mission to create a better future for all. Rest in peace, Sandi.

Stewart receives the GSGCF President’s Merit Award, alongside fellow employee Linda Ezzell, in 2005.

Girl Scouts Embark on an Unforgettable European Adventure, Expanding Their Horizons with the Help of Cookie Rewards

Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida visit the Olympic Stadium in Athens in July 2023.

A group of six determined and adventurous Girl Scouts from the Gulfcoast footprint recently returned from an extraordinary journey through Italy and Greece. Through their hard work and dedication to selling cookies, these young girls were able to embark on an educational and cultural experience that will shape their lives forever. The 10-day trip was offered as a Cookie Reward for Gulfcoast Girl Scouts during the 2022 and 2023 Cookie Seasons.

From the bustling streets of Rome to the iconic landmarks of Florence, and the breathtaking beauty of the Adriatic Coast, these six Girl Scouts explored the rich history, art, and culture of Italy. Their journey continued as they made their way to the enchanting Greek destinations of Igoumenitsa, Delphi, and Athens, immersing themselves in the wonders of ancient civilizations.

Thanks to their local communities’ generous support of their entrepreneurial endeavors, these Girl Scouts were able to witness firsthand the architectural marvels of Rome, including the Colosseum, the Roman Forum, and the Vatican City. They also toured Saint Peter’s Cathedral and the Catacombs. In Florence, they marveled at the historical cityscape, attended a traditional leather demonstration and pasta-making class, and strolled along the charming Ponte Vecchio. The scenic Adriatic Coast offered them a much-needed respite, where they enjoyed a nighttime ferry ride through the crystal-clear waters.

Crossing over to Greece, the Girl Scouts experienced the magic of Igoumenitsa, a coastal town renowned for its natural beauty and historical significance. In Delphi, they delved into the ancient ruins of the Oracle, gaining insights into the religious and cultural practices of ancient Greece. The journey culminated in Athens, where they walked in the footsteps of the great philosophers at the Acropolis and toured the Athens Museum at their own pace.

The group traveled with fellow Girl Scouts from Pennsylvania and Kansas, who also earned the trip as a Cookie Reward. The girls expressed their gratitude for the opportunity to travel abroad through their participation in the Cookie Program. This incredible opportunity has not only broadened their understandings of the world but has also empowered them with a global perspective and a renewed sense of curiosity.

Once a year, Girl Scouts around the country venture into the entrepreneurial world to learn
business and financial skills and earn money to fund their Girl Scouting goals. Through “learning by earning,” Girl Scouting aims to empower girls through the development of five essential skills: goal setting, money management, people skills, decision making, and business ethics. In addition to the five key skills girls learn from the Girl Scout Cookie Program, girls whose troop chooses the base troop proceeds plan can earn individual girl rewards. Cookie Rewards vary each year and may include reward items, clubs, events, and trips. Direct, booth and online sales, as well as cookies sold for Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida’s Mints for the Military Program all count towards a girl’s end-of-sale totals.

Ashley Gill, GSGCF Product Program Manager, shared her thoughts on this life-changing experience, saying: “We are incredibly grateful for the support of our community, who made it possible for these Girl Scouts to embark on this incredible journey. The lessons we learned, the friendships we made, and the memories we created will stay with us forever. Selling cookies not only helped these girls achieve their goals but also taught them valuable skills, such as teamwork, communication, and entrepreneurship.”

The Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida is immensely proud of these six exceptional Girl Scouts, who exemplify the spirit of determination, ambition, and resilience that the organization seeks to instill in its members.

The trip of a lifetime was made possible by the girls’ participation in the Girl Scout Cookie Program.

Your Back-To-Troop Checklist is Here

That time of year is finally upon us! As we prepare for our girls to go back to school, it is also time to begin planning your 2023-24 Girl Scouting season.

Here is a checklist to use when you are getting ready for the next troop year in September and October each troop year:

Once you have taken care of the brass tacks, it is time to begin planning your year of Girl Scouting. We already know it is going to be filled with fun, friendship, creativity, adventure, and wonder… But how do we make it happen?

In Girl Scouts, we talk a lot about why it’s so important for girls to take the lead in troop life, and for good reason! But for many new troop leaders, the idea of letting their girls take charge might sound a little crazy. How do you let little girls who can barely sit through snack time plan a year of activities? What does girl-led planning actually look like?

Girl-Led Planning for Younger Girls

If you’ll be planning activities for your younger girls, get a clear picture of what they’re most excited about.

Once you know what the girls in your troop are most excited about, it will be easier to plan activities and badges around their personal interests. Many Daisy and Brownie leaders find that asking girls to vote on two or three options keeps the girls engaged and keeps the meeting moving. This strategy gives the girls agency while also keeping your troop’s planning realistic and mission-aligned.

As your girls bridge to Juniors, they’ll be ready to take on more responsibilities in charting their troop year.

Girl-Led Planning for Older Girls

Cadettes, Seniors, and Ambassadors have the skills they need to develop realistic plans and make them a reality! Though they won’t need the same level of support as younger girls, be ready with guiding questions or key information that will help them make informed decisions about the year ahead.

The most supportive thing you can do for older girls is to listen to them and create effective systems for them to turn their dreams into a reality.

Gold Award Girl Scout Autumn Pepper Rhodes Receives $10,000 Scholarship from Girl Scouts USA

Girl Scouts of Gulf Coast Florida (GSGCF) Ambassador Girl Scout Autumn Pepper Rhodes is the recipient of the 2023 National Gold Award Scholarship. Every year, the Girl Scouts of the USA awards a Girl Scout Gold Award Scholarship to a Gold Award recipient from each council. Due to the generosity of sponsors and donors to GSUSA, this year’s recipient Autumn Pepper Rhodes will receive $10,000, as well as recognition in local and national Girl Scout promotions.

Learn more about the National Gold Award Scholarship at GSUSA’s website.

Rhodes is one of 12 GSGCF members to have earned the Girl Scout Gold Award in 2023. The Gold Award is the highest and most prestigious award that Girl Scout Seniors and Ambassadors can earn. It is the culmination of years of hard work and dedication to Girl Scouting.

A project must involve a minimum of 80 hours and include the following steps: identifying an issue, investigating it thoroughly, getting help and building a team, creating a plan, presenting the plan, gathering feedback, taking action, and educating and inspiring others. It is more than just a good service project—it encompasses organizational, leadership, and networking skills.

The issue that Rhodes identified for her project was a lack of gender parity within the fields of aerospace and aviation, as well as a lack of opportunities within Girl Scouts for girls to explore aviation. She hosted three workshops in her community for young women to learn about engineering and aviation and invited successful women pilots as speakers to inspire interest in aviation among girls.

Her workshops gave girls the opportunity to learn about careers in engineering and aviation and take part in a discovery flight experience.

She created a website filled with videos, educational resources, and scholarship information for girls interested in aviation. She also started an online petition urging GSUSA to lift their safety restrictions and allow discovery flights as a Girl Scout activity.

Rhodes’ petition has over 1,700 signatures and counting, and can be accessed on her website, www.girlswhosoar.com.

“This experience has inspired me and proved that I am able to make a difference in my community,” Rhodes said. “I plan to continue advocating for aviation in Girl Scouting and press the Board of Directors to implement an aviation career badge to inspire young women around the country. I will undoubtedly continue to advocate for more women in S.T.E.M., and it has confirmed my desire to work as a Certified Flight Instructor and mentor for other young aviatrix.”

Rhodes said that her favorite Girl Scouting memories include participating as a C.I.T. at Camp Honi Honta and serving on the National Media Team for the 2017 G.I.R.L. National Convention.

She will be attending Rice University in Houston in the fall, pursuing a dual major in mechanical engineering and astrophysics. She is a licensed pilot and aspires to one day become an astronaut.

Girl Scouts were able to apply for the scholarship between March 15, 2023 and April 17, 2023. Eligible Gold Award Girl Scouts included high school seniors or graduates who earned the Gold Award between April 1, 2022 and March 31, 2023. Each applicant was required to provide proof of their Gold Award and submit four 500-word essays about their Gold Award. One recipient per council was selected nationwide.

How Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida is combatting the “Summer Slide”

The joy of a sunny summer vacation is hard to beat—but if you’re like many parents, you might be worried about your daughter falling back academically while school’s out. But believe it or not, there are easy (and fun!) ways that your daughter can not only stay on track, but also learn even more before the start of the next school year.

“Summer slide” is the tendency for students, especially those from low-income families, to lose some of the research regarding summer learning loss suggests that on average, students lose about two months of grade level equivalency in math and reading achievement gains they made during the previous school year.

Because we know that the Summer Slide is such a serious issue and we want to combat it, the Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida participates with the Suncoast Campaign for Grade Level Reading and Anna Maria Oyster Bar in the Dive Into Reading Program hosted in Manatee County each summer. The Anna Maria Oyster Bars’ Dive into Reading program aims to improve children’s reading levels by combating “Summer Slide.”

GSGCF Staff member Rachel Staigerwald and reading partners Kailey and Miracle enjoyed new books and a hot breakfast at Gecko’s Grill & Pub on S.R. 70 as part of the Dive Into Reading Program.

The Dive Into Reading Program has been serving Manatee County since 2017. Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida has proudly joined in the efforts to promote childhood literacy every year since the program’s genesis.

In just its first year, Dive into Reading helped students beat the “Summer Slide” and showed an increase in reading proficiency when they returned to school. In 2020, the program was offered virtually via Zoom, with 75% of the participating children showing no reading loss when they returned to school.

This year, Dive into Reading aims to mentor even more children and continue to make a positive impact on their reading skills.

Worried about your child falling behind during the summer? Follow these tips and watch her soar!

  1. Send her to camp
    You might think camp is all tents and tug-o-war, but your daughter can gain a lot of skills—and put those she learned in school last year to good use. Plus, the confidence that she gains from going away will help her feel more capable in all areas of her life, school included.
  2. Participate in Girl Scout programs during the summer
    We recently updated our summer calendar, including events now through the winter! Check out the programs we have to offer- many of which are education and family-oriented- that will keep your daughter engaged and enriched during the summer months.
  3. Give her time to play
    Whether she’s playing with dolls or being silly with her friends, playtime is actually super important for your girl. Why? Studies show that play allows the neurons in a child’s brain to form new connections. This rewiring helps boost emotional intelligence, decision-making skills, creativity, and problem-solving abilities.
  4. Let her lead “book club
    Pick a title she’d like to read, and have the whole family read it together and discuss it—with your girl asking the questions! It’ll give her a chance to lead and be the “expert,” which can boost her love of books and will keep her reading skills sharp!
  5. Encourage her to make something
    From dreaming up ideas and designing a hands-on project to testing those ideas and problem solving on her own terms (without a teacher’s instruction), making something from scratch—whether it’s a bird feeder or a pie—is one of the best ways to keep her learning this summer.
  6. Find the magic in everyday life
    How do magnets stick to the fridge? Why are leaves green? How does her phone know where she was when she took a photo? Help her investigate these questions and more as she explores how the wonderful world around her actually works and brushes up on her science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) knowledge in the process!
  7. If she’s old enough, suggest she get a summer job
    She’ll love getting a paycheck, but she’ll also get hands-on experience practicing important people skills, learn about how a business operates (whether she’s running her own dog-walking service or working for an established company!), and likely get a hefty-dose of financial literacy in the mix, too. Major bonus? College admissions teams love applicants who’ve held jobs over the summer or after school, because it shows responsibility and drive!

There’s no rule that says learning can only happen in a classroom! Let her curiosity, imagination, and passions lead the way, and she’s sure to have a summer full of enriching, educational moments.

Girl Scouts wins Manatee Chamber 2023 Small Business of the Year

The Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida, a non-profit organization of nearly 3,500 girls in grades K-12, and more than 1,500 adult members in the greater gulf coast area, was chosen as 2023 Small Business of the Year in the Non-Profit category by the Manatee Chamber of Commerce. The award was announced on June 29 at the 43rd Annual Small Business of the Year Awards, hosted by the Manatee Chamber of Commerce at the Bradenton Convention Center.

Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida was among six other organizations to be recognized as winners of the Small Business of the Year Award this year. Non-profit organizations were divided into two categories based on staff size; for-profit organizations were divided into five categories based on annual revenue.

Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida facilitates programming, service opportunities, leadership experiences, and offers the largest girl-led entrepreneurial program in the world – the Girl Scout Cookie Program. As Girl Scouts, girls also discover the fun, friendship, and power of girls together. They learn and grow in a safe, all-girl environment, which helps them discover themselves and their values, try new things and take healthy risks, connect with others to create positive relationships, and take action in their communities on issues they are passionate about.

The organization was recognized by judges for providing outstanding leadership, entrepreneurial, and educational opportunities to girls in the Manatee County area while facing various challenges during the 2022 fiscal year, including philanthropic struggles related to the COVID-19 pandemic, national supply chain issues during the 2022 Cookie Program, and damage to the organization’s properties during Hurricane Ian.

“The story of this nonprofit is one of resilience,” said Kevin Cooper of Mote Marine, who presented the award. “This group is no stranger to challenges—it has been overcoming them for more than 100 years. It has been a leader in building courage, confidence, and character in local young ladies, and it currently serves more than 800 girls and nearly 400 adults [in Manatee County].”

Moore said that Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida “offers the largest girl-led entrepreneurial program in the world to young ladies in Manatee County, empowering these children with skills such as goal setting, decision making, and, of course, resilience — one box of cookies at a time,” he said.

Mary Anne Servian, CEO of Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida, made brief remarks as she accepted the award on behalf of the organization. She noted the Girl Scouts’ storied history in Manatee County, including the fact that the organization was founded in Manatee County over 100 years ago. She also noted that in 1953 the council acquired a 40-acre tract of land on the Braden River and established their own camp, Honi Hanta, meaning “Home on the River.” The camp is still operating to this day.

“We are proud to be part of such a diverse and spirited community,” she said.

Servian also remarked that the Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida’s work of building girls of courage, confidence, and character who make the world a better place is far from finished. “In fact, it is just beginning,” she said. “I am happy to say that we are looking forward to a full calendar of programs this summer and fall,” many of which will directly serve communities within Manatee County. For more information about the programs Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida has to offer, visit https://www.gsgcf.org/.

Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida staff and board members attended the Manatee Chamber Small Business Awards on June 29. From left to right, Patricia Ramthun, Chief Communications and Resource Officer; Pamela Sennott, Development Manager; Mary Anne Servian, CEO; Karin Bleyer, Board Member; Marie Graziosi, Chief of Staff; and Jessica Miano, Marketing and Communications Associate.

Mary Anne Servian, Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida CEO (seated, center) accepted the 2023 Small Business of the Year Award on behalf of the organization. The other winning organizations recognized that evening included One Step Housing, Stronger Moving & Delivery Service, A.L.L. About Kids Pediatric Dentistry, Your CBD Store, Ohana Embroidery, and Healthy Teens Inc..

From left to right, Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida Board Member Karin Bleyer and Mary Anne Servian, CEO, pose with the 2023 Small Business of the Year Award plaque.

Awardees received a recognition plaque and a congratulatory letter from Congressman Vern Buchanan.

Have a Safe & Fun 4th of July

The Fourth of July is finally here! This weekend Girl Scouts will be celebrating Independence Day from sea to shining sea. Whether you’re at camp, the beach, a backyard barbecue or any other fun you may find in between; we hope you have a great holiday weekend! Below are a few tips to ensure you have a safe and super fun time. So, go out there rocking your stars and stripes and enjoy your favorite summer activities!

Sunblock is your friend
Don’t forget to keep reapplying sunscreen throughout the day. Wear all the red, white and blue clothes you want this weekend but try not to turn your skin red. No one wants to look like a lobster on the 5th of July!

   Fireworks 
Bing. Bang. BOOM! Let the professionals do all the work. There are some amazing fireworks shows throughout West Central Florida, find one that’s near you.

   Sparklers
We know you girls love the glitz and twinkle of sparklers. Before you get this party started, make sure you have an adult present. Hold the sparklers away from your body and others around you. Also, keep a bucket of water handy to extinguish your flames.

   Beach 
Before you run into the surf, make sure there’s a lifeguard on duty. Don’t forget to tell Mom and Dad that you’re going in for a dip. Stay close to shore and try not to venture in water that’s too deep.

  Sand Castles 
Please don’t throw sand at others… even if your little brother is being annoying.

  Fire  
Do you like making s’mores over the campfire? Don’t get too close to the open flame. You want your marshmallow roasted, not your fingers!

  Camping 
Before you head out into the wilderness make a checklist of all the supplies you need. You don’t want to get caught in the woods without enough TP!

For more information and other tips on how to stay safe this Fourth of July visit the Red Cross website.

56th National Council Session: Important Information & Survey

Girl Scouts from across our country and around the world will gather for the 56th National Council Session in Orlando from July 18-20, 2023.

As we continue to prepare for our 56th National Council Session, this document outlines the items that will be placed on the agenda based on insights from local volunteers, council leaders and council staff, national leaders and GSUSA staff, and the volunteers who serve as members of the Girl Scouts of the USA Board of Directors (the “board”). The overarching goal for the 56th National Council Session is to hold an inspiring and energizing gathering—where we have productive and efficient discussions and make decisions in support of strategic objectives, and elect leaders for the next triennium. Collectively and collaboratively, we will create a strong future for Girl Scouting.

The four National Council Delegates who have been elected by Girl Scouts of Gulfcoast Florida and the other councils of Girl Scouts U.S.A. will work together in a democratic and engaging governance practice that will lay the foundation for an even brighter future for Girl Scouts—always with the girls we serve as the focus of these meetings.

View or download the seven proposed amendments that will be discussed at NCS here:

A Town Hall session will be held on July 6 at 7:00 p.m. via Zoom to discuss the proposed amendments.

Juliette Gordon Low said it best: “The work of today is the history of tomorrow, and we are its makers.” Girl Scouts convened its first National Council Session (NCS) in 1915, engaging women in a democratic process five years before the 19th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution granted American women the right to vote.

Phenom by Girl Scouts, an event just for girls, will follow the 56th National Council Session on July 20-22.

Celebrating Juneteenth

Juneteenth combines “June” and “nineteenth.” It’s also known as Freedom Day, Jubilee Day, and Emancipation Day.   

Even though President Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation officially ending slavery in 1863, in practice it remained in some parts of the country. On June 19, 1865, word that the Civil War was over and slavery was abolished finally made it to enslaved people in Galveston, Texas—and celebrations throughout the newly free Black community followed, which in time became an annual tradition across the U.S. 

We asked our Girl Scout community how they intend to commemorate the day this year. We heard about plans to gather and celebrate with family and friends, as well as plans to educate others, learn more, and reflect on the history of the occasion.

For more on the history of Juneteenth, check out KidsKonnect’s Juneteenth facts and worksheets and the National Museum of African American History & Culture’s Historical Legacy of Juneteenth

This article was originally published on the GSUSA Blog.

Take Action to Protect Our Oceans with Gold Award Girl Scout Madison Witherspoon [Gold Award Spotlight]

World Oceans Day, celebrated annually on June 8, is all about protecting the ocean. A healthy planet needs a healthy ocean, but our waters face huge risks from overfishing, climate change, and plastic pollution.

The purpose of the Day is to inform the public of the impact of human actions on the ocean, develop a worldwide movement of citizens for the ocean, and mobilize and unite the world’s population on a project for the sustainable management of the world’s oceans.

Gulfcoast Girl Scout Madison Witherspoon has a passion for environmental advocacy and decided to dedicate her 80-hour Gold Award project, “L.F.A. Program” to the cause of ocean conservation.

Madison is a high school junior in the International Baccalaureate Diploma Program at Riverview High School. She has three siblings; an older brother, a twin sister, and a younger sister. In her free time, she likes to read and play volleyball.

Once Madison became aware of all the marine life and birds that were dying from unrecycled goods in the water and from beach litter, she was inspired to educate people on the importance of recycling. She did so by organizing a beach cleanup and creating an informative website on how to resolve the issues that arise due to lack of recycling.

She hosted classes for students grades K-12 where she taught students new recycling methods and shared the dangerous effects of pollution on the environment. She also collaborated with a social media influencer to get the word out about recycling through the creation of informative videos.

“Through this project, I learned that I am very good at managing uncontrollable situations,” Madison said.

Madison earned the Girl Scout Gold Award in March 2023.

She has three siblings: an older brother, a twin sister, and a younger sister. In her free time, she likes to read and play volleyball. She plans to pursue a career in pediatric oncology.

The Girl Scout Gold Award acknowledges the power behind each Gold Award Girl Scout’s dedication to not only empowering and bettering herself, but also to making the world a better place for others. Through earning the Gold Award, Girl Scouts become innovative problem solvers, empathetic leaders, confident public speakers, and focused project managers. They learn resourcefulness, tenacity, and decision-making skills, giving them an edge personally and professionally.

By earning their Gold Awards, these young women have distinguished themselves as true community leaders and change-makers who have made a meaningful and sustainable difference in the world. Their accomplishments reflect leadership and social responsibility that set them apart from their peers.

“Gold Award Girl Scouts are the dreamers and doers who take ‘make the world a better place’ to the next level,” said GSGCF CEO Mary Anne Servian. “These girls tackled issues that are important to them and their communities, and we congratulate them on this momentous accomplishment.”

GSGCF CEO Mary Anne Servian (left) and Gold Award Girl Scout Madison Witherspoon (right) at the 2023 Young Women of Distinction Award Ceremony.

According to recent research, Gold Award Girl Scouts are more likely to fill leadership roles at work and in their personal lives and are more civically engaged than their non-Girl Scout peers. Eighty-five percent of Gold Award Girl Scouts say that earning their Gold Award gave them skills to succeed in their daily lives, and eighty-seven percent say it gave them skills to help them succeed professionally.

As a bonus, the Gold Award opens doors to a variety of scholarships, preferred admission tracks for college, strong networking and amazing career opportunities, and much more. About 4,000 Girl Scouts earn their Gold Award every year, placing Madison among a prestigious community of change-makers who have achieved this honor. Since 1916, over 160,000 Girl Scouts have earned the Gold Award or its equivalent.